Or is it selfish for others to force one to continue on even after life has lost all of its luster?
It's interesting how it is often said that 'good things are around the corner'. Maybe the phrase 'tomorrow is another day' is more fitting. If a person has to drag on day after day without happiness shouldn't it be an option to stop dragging along?
Also, is the pain of survivors any more than the pain that what the deceased themselves are going through?
I think in most cases, it is. But it's one of those things that you have to consider all the facts of each situation to really make an evaluation of how selfish it is or isn't.
If you take away all scenarios where the suicide is committed in order to save other people's lives (e.g. when a soldier dives on a live grenade to save his friends or when a pregnant woman is told that she'll die if she delivers but will live if they abort the fetus and she still goes through with it) or to similarly prevent something horrible from happening that might hurt others, then I think you could make a case for almost all the other situations as being selfish, or at least self-serving.
But, again, there are still examples where you could argue it isn't. Take this hypothetical situation: a 15 year old kid comes down with an untreatable, incurable and lethal disease and is told he has 2 years to live tops. His parents do all they can to make things as comfortable as possible the rest of his time he's alive, but all the medicines to lessen the pain and all the other medical expenses aren't fully covered and it's draining the family dry financially. It's causing a rift between his parents and he sees his younger brother and sister suffer for it. He knows his family will be devastated when he dies but he also knows that it's a guarantee that he will die and there is no treatment or cure. He doesn't want his family to also suffer financially for years to come because of him. So he takes his life. In a spiritual sense, it's a selfish act as all life is precious and should be respected. But, in another practical sense, what he did could be viewed as not selfish and not cowardly.
That's an extreme example, but it is one. The vast majority of the time, aside from as I mentioned when it's to save the lives of others, I would feel that suicide is a selfish and cowardly act.
Originally posted by Voice of Reason: i just think suicide is cowardly.
I agree with that and with the fact that it is selfish. A lot of people have serious misconceptions of what life is. When people are young, their parents try to insulate them from anything that might be negative. Then, when they grow up and learn that there is an awful lot of negative to deal with as an adult, they are unable to cope, since they never had to.
They think money is going to make them happy but all it does, if that is their sole focus in their lives, when they do happen to get some/a lot, is magnify how empty their lives really are.
I also think religion has a lot to do with it. People think after they die they go to this pearly white place where they get to sit on a cloud, take a harp lesson and get everything they want.
quote:
Originally posted by The Original King Box Est. 1992: everything on this message board is pointless.
Posts: 5346 | Location: Detroit, MI | Registered: December 13, 2002
Depending on what religion you speak of, isn't suicide a one-way ticket in the opposite direction of the pearly gates?
At least that's what I was taught in church. If you are taking your own life, the life that God gave you, then it's selfish.
(I'm not saying I believe this wholeheartedly but that's what I was taught.)
Everyone has a right to do what they want with their own body. I just struggle with what happens to the families after dad or mom or whoever has killed themselves. They are left with a sense of shame and confusion that will probably never leave them.
A prominent businessman in my town killed himself a few years ago. He had two older daughters in college but one younger son in grade school. This boy used to be an outgoing kid in sports and several other extracurricular activites.
Now this boy doesn't play sports at all, he never smiles and he's in counseling on a weekly basis because of his dad's suicide.
It sounds like his father's pain that he thought would end by killing himself has just been transferred to his son.
Originally posted by ruthie: Depending on what religion you speak of, isn't suicide a one-way ticket in the opposite direction of the pearly gates?
At least that's what I was taught in church. If you are taking your own life, the life that God gave you, then it's selfish.
(I'm not saying I believe this wholeheartedly but that's what I was taught.)
Everyone has a right to do what they want with their own body. I just struggle with what happens to the families after dad or mom or whoever has killed themselves. They are left with a sense of shame and confusion that will probably never leave them.
A prominent businessman in my town killed himself a few years ago. He had two older daughters in college but one younger son in grade school. This boy used to be an outgoing kid in sports and several other extracurricular activites.
Now this boy doesn't play sports at all, he never smiles and he's in counseling on a weekly basis because of his dad's suicide.
It sounds like his father's pain that he thought would end by killing himself has just been transferred to his son.
Of course it's selfish. So? If there is anything to be selfish or selfless with, it's that.
It's probably cowardly too. So? I'm sure the guy that offs himself won't give a dam about any of our opinions on this side. He had places to go and things to do.
I think it's cowardly and selfish of us to judge the act outside of somebody else's skin.
Posts: 5339 | Location: your next stop | Registered: October 11, 2005
Originally posted by ruthie: Depending on what religion you speak of, isn't suicide a one-way ticket in the opposite direction of the pearly gates?
At least that's what I was taught in church. If you are taking your own life, the life that God gave you, then it's selfish.
(I'm not saying I believe this wholeheartedly but that's what I was taught.)
Everyone has a right to do what they want with their own body. I just struggle with what happens to the families after dad or mom or whoever has killed themselves. They are left with a sense of shame and confusion that will probably never leave them.
A prominent businessman in my town killed himself a few years ago. He had two older daughters in college but one younger son in grade school. This boy used to be an outgoing kid in sports and several other extracurricular activites.
Now this boy doesn't play sports at all, he never smiles and he's in counseling on a weekly basis because of his dad's suicide.
It sounds like his father's pain that he thought would end by killing himself has just been transferred to his son.
Thanks, dad.
I thought if you did it, 15 virgins and rivers of honey await you!?
I'm not a coward nor am I selfish for the way I think about this.
I've been down in the dumps before...way down...so I get the feelings of desperation one might feel in a time like this (although not fully).
If you are a single person without family...go ahead and do what you feel you need to do. If you have family of any sort and especially if you have children, which you helped bring into this world, you have a responsibility to make sure they feel safe, loved, and wanted.
How can a kid feel any of the three if daddy/mommy blew their head off? They didn't love me enough to stick around to see me grow up? They didn't care how this would effect the LIVING after they are gone?
I always try and put myself into someone else's shoes and I am way beyond even being close to perfect...but dang, I can't imagine leaving my kids behind with all the bull**** that's to follow my suicide.
I just think it's selfish the burdens that are put on the surviving family members, that's all.
Or maybe they've never been more clear-thinking and level-headed in their entire lives...
We can sit here and dissect and judge and opine. But, ultimately, gentile has a great point. The ones who aren't mentally unstable very likely know exactly what they're doing and realize the consequences of their actions and the effects it likely will have on their families and friends. And, there are those who do realize all those things are still willing to do it for whatever reason.
To me, just because a person is depressed, it doesn't mean they aren't thinking clear or their judgment is impaired. And what they're going through, the pain they feel, the inescapable loneliness or desperation is what they're most concerned with. And those personal issues trump all else, makes them unphased as to how it will affect others, and leave them unaffected as to what others, especially strangers, might think of them and how "selfish" or "cowardly" their suicide is.
We can call it selfish and cowardly, but someone willing to take his or her own life could not care less over such perceptions.
Originally posted by Whet Gas Reloaded: Or is it selfish for others to force one to continue on even after life has lost all of its luster?
It's interesting how it is often said that 'good things are around the corner'. Maybe the phrase 'tomorrow is another day' is more fitting. If a person has to drag on day after day without happiness shouldn't it be an option to stop dragging along?
Also, is the pain of survivors any more than the pain that what the deceased themselves are going through?
Yes, suicide in most cases is pretty selfish. Also, a lot of suicide attempts are unsuccessful, which almost always means the person was just seeking attention, which is a pretty selfish way to go about doing so. I mean, it isn't that hard to kill yourself, so if you fail at it, there's most likely an underlying reason.
Cowardly? I never thought people who successfully committed suicide were very cowardly. Some may think of it as taking the "easy way out." But I'd say facing death is pretty brave, because the unknown is really scary...the prime reason why I wouldn't commit suicide IF I got to that lowest point is because I'm afraid of death...the second would be with my loved ones in mind. Call me selfish if you want. But I'd never commit suicide, because the thought of dying scares me.
________________________ She's a pretty girl, she's always falling down, and I think I just fell in love with her. But she won't ever remember, remember. And I can always find her, at the bottom of a plastic cup....drowning in drunk sincerity, a sad and lonely girl.
No, do u consider Japs that did kamikazee missions selfish or cowardly?
Many situations exist in which a person is in a predicament where a person loses their life against impossible odds. The guy that jumps on the grenade. captain that goes down with the ship.
The old/sick person that is becoming a greater burden on their family.
No, not all cases of suicide are selfish, but people on the outside looking in may view it that way when generally it is not the case.
its not always the case that people that commit suicide are dealing with psych issues.
Posts: 1108 | Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Registered: February 23, 2005
Originally posted by dcspyder: No, do u consider Japs that did kamikazee missions selfish or cowardly?
Many situations exist in which a person is in a predicament where a person loses their life against impossible odds. The guy that jumps on the grenade. captain that goes down with the ship.
The old/sick person that is becoming a greater burden on their family.
No, not all cases of suicide are selfish, but people on the outside looking in may view it that way when generally it is not the case.
its not always the case that people that commit suicide are dealing with psych issues.
Maybe they thought doing this, they would have 20 hot ninja sluts and a bowl of golden noodles waiting for them on the other side.
Depends on how messy the suicide is. If it requires a big clean up I would at least call it inconsiderate. If you are going to do it keep it clean for goodness sakes.
Posts: 6095 | Location: Middle of the mitten | Registered: March 09, 2004
Originally posted by ruthie: I'm not a coward nor am I selfish for the way I think about this.
I've been down in the dumps before...way down...so I get the feelings of desperation one might feel in a time like this (although not fully).
If you are a single person without family...go ahead and do what you feel you need to do. If you have family of any sort and especially if you have children, which you helped bring into this world, you have a responsibility to make sure they feel safe, loved, and wanted.
How can a kid feel any of the three if daddy/mommy blew their head off? They didn't love me enough to stick around to see me grow up? They didn't care how this would effect the LIVING after they are gone?
I always try and put myself into someone else's shoes and I am way beyond even being close to perfect...but dang, I can't imagine leaving my kids behind with all the bull**** that's to follow my suicide.
I just think it's selfish the burdens that are put on the surviving family members, that's all.
I take back the cowardly statement. I'm sowwwy. I was caught up in the flash of rhetoric. And I wasn't talking to you specifically. Your impassioned plea for parents to not off themselves is powerful and sincere.
But that dead parent is waaaay beyond our judgment now ruthie. Help the kid; don't judge the parent. It's a wasteful indulgence. In the end, your life is all that is truly yours.
Posts: 5339 | Location: your next stop | Registered: October 11, 2005
How can I not judge a parent who inflicts this sort of pain on their child? I don't care how messed up you are in the head...you've got to realize that by killing yourself your family is never going to be the same...ever.
I can equate the after effects of suicide as one constant smack in the face for the rest of your life...or being called "stupid" or "worthless" by an emotionally abusive parent. It's the same thing. It will never leave you, it will always be there, you will always be reminded of it.
I will judge someone who does this to a child...THEIR child. Sorry, I can't look at it any other way.
Suicide is selfish when there are those that depend on you. But if we are talking a mercy kill, like what Kevorkian was claiming to do, it isn't selfish at all...
Posts: 4927 | Location: Detroit proper | Registered: December 14, 2002
