1. Outlet passes...When Ben gets a board he is always looking to get the ball down court.

2. Screens...almost never get called for a moving screen.

3. Tip outs...doesn't get a board, but gets his hand in there and taps it out.

Him an Rip doing there thing

He does the little things that don't show up in the box score. Those things are needed to win. I am happy he is back.

The nappy unshaped fro

Saw a couple of things last night that I have missed

1 - a very enthusiastic one handed put back slam

2 - a long armed rebound

Saw a couple of new things too, like a pair of sweet dimes.

quote:

Originally posted by Lou K:
Saw a couple of things last night that I have missed

1 - a very enthusiastic one handed put back slam

2 - a long armed rebound

Saw a couple of new things too, like a pair of sweet dimes.

What about the handle before that drop to Kwame at the start of the 2nd? That one woke me up.

I was strongly against Ben coming back, but I've gradually warmed up to the move a little bit. Still don't agree with it, but I don't hate it like I initially did, especially if Ben is accepting of playing a pretty small role for the team. He did bring some solid energy and even looked serviceable on the offensive end of the court. But, I hope last night is very indicative of his playing time once the regular season comes, 10 or so energy minutes.

I don't really recall Ben being a major force with his outlets. Rasheed was the one with the great outlet passes. But in Ben's hay day, the way he would secure rebounds once he got both hands on the ball was great. And, the way he had very active hands on defense, in the passing lanes or just trying to find angles to deflect the basketball when he'd pressure the ball. Those are things I'd be happy to see on defense in his minutes on the court.

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Jam:
I was strongly against Ben coming back, but I've gradually warmed up to the move a little bit. Still don't agree with it, but I don't hate it like I initially did, especially if Ben is accepting of playing a pretty small role for the team. He did bring some solid energy and even looked serviceable on the offensive end of the court. But, I hope last night is very indicative of his playing time once the regular season comes, 10 or so energy minutes.

I don't really recall Ben being a major force with his outlets. Rasheed was the one with the great outlet passes. But in Ben's hay day, the way he would secure rebounds once he got both hands on the ball was great. And, the way he had very active hands on defense, in the passing lanes or just trying to find angles to deflect the basketball when he'd pressure the ball. Those are things I'd be happy to see on defense in his minutes on the court.

I say give him the amount of minutes he's earned, rather than saying he gets 10 minutes...

I'm suggesting that about 10 mpg would be what he deserves. I didn't imply he shouldn't get minutes he earns.

quote:

Originally posted by gentile:


What about the handle before that drop to Kwame at the start of the 2nd? That one woke me up.

Oh hell yes. I couldn't believe that!

Dude was a starter last year, i don't think hes fallen off enough to deserve 10 minuters per game. Get real.

I'm being very much real, moreover realistic.

Even when he did start last year, he only played about 23 mpg. And that was a title contending team, not a rebuilding team. And in the playoffs, Ben averaged 12.6 mpg, despite needing defense to help contain Dwight Howard. He even averaged less than 15 mpg against Orlando.

On the Pistons special, Dumars even said that Ben was the veteran big man they always get to be the "fifth" big.

Remove your emotional attachments. First of all, he likely will only deserve around 10 mpg. And secondly, on a young rebuilding team like this one, unless Ben can be the difference between a borderline playoff team and a legit title contender, he shouldn't be getting much more than 10 mpg. Villanueva wasn't even suited up last night. This team doesn't have that many minutes to give Ben.

Lets just say Ben is rejuvenated. And he started.. We would have a bench that featured:

Ben Gordon
Charlie Villanueva
Chris Wilcox
Jason Maxiell
and Will Bynum

That's like a whole new team coming on to the floor.

Holy crap!!! I didn't even realize the preseason had started. Alright, the wait is almost over.

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Jam:
I'm being very much real, moreover realistic.

Even when he did start last year, he only played about 23 mpg. And that was a title contending team, not a rebuilding team. And in the playoffs, Ben averaged 12.6 mpg, despite needing defense to help contain Dwight Howard. He even averaged less than 15 mpg against Orlando.

On the Pistons special, Dumars even said that Ben was the veteran big man they always get to be the "fifth" big.

Remove your emotional attachments. First of all, he likely will only deserve around 10 mpg. And secondly, on a young rebuilding team like this one, unless Ben can be the difference between a borderline playoff team and a legit title contender, he shouldn't be getting much more than 10 mpg. Villanueva wasn't even suited up last night. This team doesn't have that many minutes to give Ben.

You don't have any idea of what you are speaking about and you know it. You are just spewing crap that Joe Dumars said and using stats that do not matter and it's appauling that you are trying to build a case out of that.

Let's get to this young and rebuilding team statement because you seriously need a refresher on what young and rebuilding is. We still have Prince, and Hamilton, we aquired Ben Gordon and CV do you think they signed up to rebuild? Does this look like a rebuilding team or a transitioning team from another era? While you think about that let me also infom you that there are no rookies in the starting lineup and there are none that are being looked at to be a big contributing pressence this year! Young and rebuilding is the last thing this team is, infact if you really want to spew crap joe D said you would acknowledge the fact that he said he never wanted to go through a rebuilding era with this team.

Another thing that is really bugging me about your argument is Ben Wallace's stats. While you attack his stats you offer no solution to who you want to start. And I would expect that from you because you do not like to play fair JoeJam. But you have always been wrong about what the Pistons needed and you are wrong now!

This team looks more and more like the team I planned on having than that crappy team you had where you would pay 8 million for Cris Wilcox. And with that being said I think Ben Wallace should start.

And if anyone is looking at CV not starting than you need your head examined.

it irks me when people say that we're rebuilding. with all that money we spent, we're already built. we may not be contenders, but this team has no excuse for not having a winning record and making the playoffs.

i expect us to be something like those 03 pistons: a very solid team who's one piece a way

That's still rebuilding. Until the team is in position to be a legitimate title contender, the team is still in rebuild mode. If you have a different definition, cool. But that's how I see it. Despite all the money they spent, the team still needs time to get familiar with each other and gain chemistry. Plus it's Kuester's first year and first time as head coach.

To me, it's still a rebuilding year, getting familiar with Coach Q's style and to get chemistry, and in the next season or two, add a piece or two to make the team legit title contenders.

to you? We are not speaking about what it is to you. We are talking about what it is! It is not a rebuilding year when you spen all of your cap money and have no rookies that you expect production from. Are you kidding me!

quote:

Originally posted by Joe Jam:
That's still rebuilding. Until the team is in position to be a legitimate title contender, the team is still in rebuild mode. If you have a different definition, cool. But that's how I see it. Despite all the money they spent, the team still needs time to get familiar with each other and gain chemistry. Plus it's Kuester's first year and first time as head coach.

To me, it's still a rebuilding year, getting familiar with Coach Q's style and to get chemistry, and in the next season or two, add a piece or two to make the team legit title contenders.

It could go quickly from Rebuilding to Contender if this group bonds quickly and Joe can pull off the right trade.

Having a REAL coach instead of that debacle of last year is worth 10 wins in my book. Eliminating the drama will be priceless.

We'll have to see. I personally think this team is still in rebuild mode. Two new starters, possibly up to 5 different players in the top 10 of the rotation. And again you add a first year head coach with a new system. To me, that's rebuilding. It doesn't mean the team will be bad or can't make the playoffs. But, I still think this is a transition year.

I'm thinking the team could go anywhere from 37-44 wins. I don't think they'll win 10 more games than last year. Too many changes. They'll probably still be a 6-8 playoff seed and a first round out at best. Doesn't mean I want that or that I hope I'm right. That's just how I see it.