Who do we have?

Prince? Never was.
Wallace? Has been.
Brown? Never was.
Suckey? Enough said, they can keep hyping him all they like, bottom line is he's an average player.
Hamilton? Good but not going to improve. Our best player.
Gordon? 3-10, awesome!
Bynum and Maxiell? Stat lovers.
Jerebko, Daye, Summers? Too early to tell, most likely duds.
Villanueva? What defence?

Where is our future young star? The one that brings people through the gates? We don't have one, and on top of that we don't even have any experienced guns either. We've drafted poorly for the past 4-5 years (even longer probably) and really used that salary cap space pathetically. We won't bottom out (perhaps we should to REALLY get a young talent) but we'll be about 8-12th in the conference for a long, long time unless something drastically changes.

How is maxiel stat LOVER? He does not have great stats to speak of.

quote:

Originally posted by Langton:
Who do we have?

Prince? Never was.
Wallace? Has been.
Brown? Never was.
Suckey? Enough said, they can keep hyping him all they like, bottom line is he's an average player.
Hamilton? Good but not going to improve. Our best player.
Gordon? 3-10, awesome!
Bynum and Maxiell? Stat lovers.
Jerebko, Daye, Summers? Too early to tell, most likely duds.
Villanueva? What defence?

Where is our future young star? The one that brings people through the gates? We don't have one, and on top of that we don't even have any experienced guns either. We've drafted poorly for the past 4-5 years (even longer probably) and really used that salary cap space pathetically. We won't bottom out (perhaps we should to REALLY get a young talent) but we'll be about 8-12th in the conference for a long, long time unless something drastically changes.

They were bad last season. Mediocrity would be an improvement.

I rather get used to topics like this one.

quote:

Originally posted by Langton:
Who do we have?

Prince? Never was.
Wallace? Has been.
Brown? Never was.
Suckey? Enough said, they can keep hyping him all they like, bottom line is he's an average player.
Hamilton? Good but not going to improve. Our best player.
Gordon? 3-10, awesome!
Bynum and Maxiell? Stat lovers.
Jerebko, Daye, Summers? Too early to tell, most likely duds.
Villanueva? What defence?

Where is our future young star? The one that brings people through the gates? We don't have one, and on top of that we don't even have any experienced guns either. We've drafted poorly for the past 4-5 years (even longer probably) and really used that salary cap space pathetically. We won't bottom out (perhaps we should to REALLY get a young talent) but we'll be about 8-12th in the conference for a long, long time unless something drastically changes.

Pessimist.

Would you prefer if Arron Afflalo and Amir Johnson were still here instead of Gordon and CV?

Isn't Daye considered a young future star? Stuckey maybe?

Teams don't trade away their young future stars.

Pistons could dump more salary and try to win the lottery so maybe they could draft another young future star, no guarantees though.

I'll stick with the 50 win team, with a chance one of their average players improves, or a trade at the deadline nets a big time player.

The Pistons will make the playoffs and with a better record then last year.

I'm not going to go extreme like the OP, but what team is a 50 win team?

Langton,

I am completely for honest analysis but even I must admit this was a little harsh. I agree that Prince needs to go, but other than that I clearly have a much more optimistic viewpoint than you do. Kwame is playing great D and is even managing to score an appreciable amount as well, our four guard rotation of Rip, BG, Stuck and Bynum is looking extremely impressive so far, and just about every big is playing solid (J-Max, Wilcox, Ben, and Daye). I can't believe I'm the only one out there that is OVERJOYED with how well we are looking so far. Compared to the utter disgrace last season was, I'm VERY optimistic for this season (and I predict we finish no lower than the 6th seed).

Should we have resigned Allen Iverson? I hear he's a star that brings people out to games...

IMO, I believe we're one or two good trades away from being back in contention. Joe will probably have us there in another couple years. Not bad considering what other teams have had to go through to get back on top.

On a more positive note, now with Sheed and Chauncey gone, the only player remaining who pulls an annual disappearing act in the playoffs is Prince. Maybe we can get more consistent play. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I believe we can get to the second round. Won't beat Cleveland or Boston, but those teams will be on a downhill slide very soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Langton:
Who do we have?

Prince? Never was.
Wallace? Has been.
Brown? Never was.
Suckey? Enough said, they can keep hyping him all they like, bottom line is he's an average player.
Hamilton? Good but not going to improve. Our best player.
Gordon? 3-10, awesome!
Bynum and Maxiell? Stat lovers.
Jerebko, Daye, Summers? Too early to tell, most likely duds.
Villanueva? What defence?

Where is our future young star? The one that brings people through the gates? We don't have one, and on top of that we don't even have any experienced guns either. We've drafted poorly for the past 4-5 years (even longer probably) and really used that salary cap space pathetically. We won't bottom out (perhaps we should to REALLY get a young talent) but we'll be about 8-12th in the conference for a long, long time unless something drastically changes.

OK Mr. Armchair GM. What would YOU suggest Joe had done? We went to 6 straight ECF's, 2 Finals, and 1 title without a true top 10 NBA Player. When he realized we weren't going to get it done with the current group he traded basically the ONLY guy teams wanted for a multiple time all-star, former league MVP with an expiring $20 million dollar contract. In that he pretty much got the two best young Free Agents available.

People need to stop believing that we have the pieces other teams want to land an Amare, Bosh, etc. We don't. We were never built as that kind of team, Joe doesn't want that kind of team. Joe has pretty much done what we all were clamoring for. Fire Flip? He did, even though it should have been Sheed that should have gone. Fire Curry? He sure did. Trade for a superstar? Did that too. It didn't work.

If you want to be the team lucky enough to draft a superstar get ready for years of being absolutely pathetic. Trailblazers and Roy? Durant and the Thunder? Derrick Rose and the Bulls?

People just need to start accepting that no matter what us "homers" think, pessimistically or optimistically, this is our team, and we truly won't know what we have until about 25 games into the season.

My hope is that they are bad enough to get a high lottery pick, then they can get a superstar level player that they are missing and need in order to compete in the "new" NBA.

Players I think are decent in their roles or could be better on the team.

Rip, Charlie V., Bynum, Daye, Jerebko, and Gordon...with Ben possibly qualifying based on his preseason play.

Everyone else is average or below.

Not many teams make the playoffs at all while rebuilding, so we're pretty fortunate to be where we are right now. And just drafting a star in the lottery doesn't add up to contending. Wayde had Shaq, Robinson was out plus the Spurs got super lucky in the lotto for Robinson. Other than that, most teams that draft stars are still many years, and many more moves, away from winning it all.

quote:

Originally posted by NCpistonsfan:
Not many teams make the playoffs at all while rebuilding, so we're pretty fortunate to be where we are right now. And just drafting a star in the lottery doesn't add up to contending. Wayde had Shaq, Robinson was out plus the Spurs got super lucky in the lotto for Robinson. Other than that, most teams that draft stars are still many years, and many more moves, away from winning it all.

That is true, but how many teams have won a title without a superstar. The 04 Pistons and the Sonics of 78 are the only ones that come to mind. The teams that have won multiple titles have had the best...Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Bird, Johnson, Hakeem etc.

everyone says without a superstar...

where does billups rank among PG last year?

How many other players have as many DPOY awards as Ben Wallace?

How many 20-10 season did R. Wallace have?

How many defensive records did the pistons set during their 03-04 season?

How many other team's have a HOF coach?

Totally won it without a superstar, you're right.

The superstar argument is a fallacy.

I agree with a few things but I also strongly disagree with a few things as well. One, saying Rip won't get better is bull because every season since he's been here he's improved at least one part of his game. Just because he's 31 years old its supposed to be different? I think this may be the best season Rip has as a pro, as he feels he has something to prove now with all that happened last season. I expect a big season from Rip, especially since he knows Gordon is right behind him.

Prince just sucks imo, still have no idea why he's still here. Should have traded him two seasons ago...

Wallace is a has been sure but he can help this team defensively. There's plenty of has beens in the league, doesn't mean they can't and don't help their teams.

Brown is 26 though, still very decently young and has shown signs of improvement since being a Piston. I thought he did great under an idiot head coach last season..and from what so far he's shown in the preseason this year, he can be a solid 10/10 or 10/8 guy.

Stuckey average player, agreed.

Judging Gordon off one performance, especially in the preseason is dumb. He's a shooter and just like any other shooter, he's going to have off games and on games. He can carry a team with his offense.

I agree Bynum and Maxiell are both stat lovers, especially Max. Bynum though is just a flat out hardworker though.

Too early to tell on the rookies but all have things about them that are positives and all have potential. I really like Daye, under the right coaching he can be something special. He needs to earn everything though, not have it handed to him like some guard we know...

Villanueva was solid defensively when he was in Toronto. I think he can be a solid defensive player now that its one part of his game he has to focus on. Defense is mostly all about hustle and effort, its something that's not very hard to do.

And you forgot Wilcox, who looks very solid.

I know what you were trying to get at, but just for clarification, in response to the question I bolded, zero.

In fact, Rasheed has never done either even independent of the other, zero 20 point seasons and zero 10 rebound seasons.

quote:

Originally posted by dcspyder:
everyone says without a superstar...

where does billups rank among PG last year?

How many other players have as many DPOY awards as Ben Wallace?

How many 20-10 season did R. Wallace have?

How many defensive records did the pistons set during their 03-04 season?

How many other team's have a HOF coach?

Totally won it without a superstar, you're right.

I don't agree. I think this team will shock many. And even make the playoffs. It actually reminds me of 04 in some ways.