The off season moves make us younger but if you do not factor age into your opinions are we a better team?

Curry vs Kuester
Dice, Sheed vs Wilcox and Charlie V
AI vs Gordon
Herman/ Johnson vs A bunch of Rookies

This message has been edited. Last edited by: EricLeckner,

Curry vs Kuester= We cant do worse than Curry/

Dice, Sheed vs Wilcox and Carlie V =Maybe Dice and Sheed are a bit better right now, but we might be pleasently suprised.

AI vs Gordon= Gordon is better, but might still force the same chemistry issues

Herman/ Johnson vs A bunch of Rookies= To early to tell, but I hope they can at least equal them in thier rookie years.

I didn't put Ben Wallice in this, because I am not sure what his role will be

Honestly, when you put it that way... yeah.

Any one is better than Curry.

Dice & Sheed have the upper hand in terms of all around talent, but energy can go a long way. Also, CV ain't no chump in terms of offensive production (I don't think either Dice nor Sheed are able to provide more production on that end of the ball). I'm not ready to say Dice & Sheed would win that match up.

I'll take Gordon any day of the week. I want my scorer to have a jump shot. Ben Gordon has one of the best jump shots in the league, AI, not so much.

Herman/Johnson both kind of sucked. What we've added is some players who have plenty of potential. Whether they work out or not, it won't be difficult for all of them to out perform our previous bench.

That's a pretty interesting break down. Not factoring in age, I'm not sure we're better by an overall talent standpoint YET.

BUT, we're more exciting and will hopefully get more consistent high intensity and hustle, things that have been missing for years...even before last year's implosion. And like Black Thought said, that can go a long way.

quote:

Originally posted by EricLeckner:
Curry vs Kuester= We cant do worse than Curry/

Yes you most certainly could: Don Cheney and Tim Floyd come to mind off the top of my head.

quote:

Originally posted by EricLeckner:
Dice, Sheed vs Wilcox and Carlie V =Maybe Dice and Sheed are a bit better right now, but we might be pleasently suprised.

True dat.

quote:

Originally posted by EricLeckner:
AI vs Gordon= Gordon is better, but might still force the same chemistry issues

All ture.

quote:

Originally posted by EricLeckner:
Herman/ Johnson vs A bunch of Rookies= To early to tell, but I hope they can at least equal them in thier rookie years.

I concur.

quote:

Originally posted by EricLeckner:
I didn't put Ben Wallice in this, because I am not sure what his role will be

Yeah. Pretty much.

Curry vs. Kuester-
Curry was terrible, I think Kuester is definitely an upgrade.

Dice and Sheed vs. Wilcox and CV-
Dice and Sheed might be a little bit better now, but I won't miss Sheed's lackadaisical attitude. CV is probably the best player out of the 4 on offense, Sheed is probably the best on defense. Wilcox and CV will provide more athleticism and more energy.

AI vs Gordon-
Gordon is the better player, and he won't cause as many chemistry issues.

Herrmann and Johnson vs. Daye, Summers and Jerebko-
Too early to tell how good the rookies will be, but I think they'll be able to match Herrmann and Johnson.

So yes, I think we'll be better this season than we were last season.

quote:

Originally posted by Lupus Guerrero:
Curry vs. Kuester-
Curry was terrible, I think Kuester is definitely an upgrade.

Dice and Sheed vs. Wilcox and CV-
Dice and Sheed might be a little bit better now, but I won't miss Sheed's lackadaisical attitude. CV is probably the best player out of the 4 on offense, Sheed is probably the best on defense. Wilcox and CV will provide more athleticism and more energy.

AI vs Gordon-
Gordon is the better player, and he won't cause as many chemistry issues.

Herrmann and Johnson vs. Daye, Summers and Jerebko-
Too early to tell how good the rookies will be, but I think they'll be able to match Herrmann and Johnson.

So yes, I think we'll be better this season than we were last season.

Attitudes will be better.Once Sheed decides to checkout on a coach, it's over with.There's no way Charlie V could defend the pick and roll worse than Sheed did last year(I'm not sure if it was because of Curry or a brokedown body).

Can anyone be a bigger cancer than AI? gordon's not even in the same hemisphere, BG chose to come here.

The combination of A competent coach and the youthful/talented roster turnover has me fired-up for the season.The team will be better for those two reasons alone.If Joe can swing a big deadline deal, the team will be leaps and bounds better.

We had some problems last season: Aging, 3 point shooting, locker room atmoshphere

Aging: We are now a much younger team. AI, Sheed n Dice are gone. And we have Charlie V., Ben Gordon and Wilcox coming joing. Draft picks are finally "use-able"

3 point shooting: Ben Gordon is one of the top 5 pure shooters in the league (imo Ray Allen, Michael Redd, Rashard Lewis, Jason Terry and Ben Gordon). Daye, Summers and Charlie V. are also very good 3 point shooters

Atmosphere: The demotivated Sheed, AI and Curry are now gone. Things are back to normal

We certainly don't have outstanding post players. Maxiell, Charlie V., Kwame n Ben Wallace have their problem. I just hope Wilcox can step up because he has the least weaknesses compared to others.

Wilcox is not as slow/clumsy as Kwame n has more post moves; Wilcox is 6'10", 3-4 inches taller than Maxiell, also a better free thow shooter and defensive rebounder than Max; Wilcox is currently a lot more athletic than the aging, undersized Ben Wallace.

Wilcox is still an average NBA player in the league though

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kirsten19,

of curse weer better ! weer only lost dice...but Austin daye alone is better than all the losers we got rid off. but its would be funny so see AA becomes great in denver

kuester is better then curry thats a givin

dice was awesome his rebounding will be hard to replace, with a collective effort from all our bigs shouldnt be to bad, sheed losing him is a gain, we just lose some entertainment value, even though i find winning more entertaining then his antics.

ai vs gordon, ummm gordon duh

herm the great white hope an amir sharpie, vs the rooks, ill take these rooks,

I don't think it's clear cut either way because you have to figure different things into the equation. It's not just merely pitting those match-ups. It's about how the chemistry gels and how much and how fast the younger players improve as the season goes along. It's about more than just one front court versus the other.

Rasheed and McDyess are better than Villanueva and Wilcox, and I think convincingly so, especially for next season. Now, in a couple of years, age should completely catch up to both of those guys. You have to realize that it's not just who will be better next season, but also looking at a few years down the line.

Allen Iverson has more talent than Ben Gordon, even now. But, Iverson just didn't work with the team and was a horrible match, had a horrible attitude, and was just bad overall for the Pistons. Ben Gordon should be better by default as it pertains to chemistry and overall production, but talent wise, I'd still say Iverson is a better player.

I give it pretty much a wash between Herrmann/Amir and the rookies. Thing is, i don't think the rookies are going to get significant playing time. I know some people hope and expect it, but I don't see much more than 15 mpg combined for both Daye and Summers, unless they completely wow or a trade is made midseason. Thereby, rendering the comparison pretty moot. Herrmann and Amir were basically non-factors because Herrmann didn't really get to play and Amir fell out of favor relatively quickly. I think playing time and opportunity will also be short for the rookies so I think determining which set is better is rather meaningless.

The one apparent advantage would be coaching, and only because Curry was that bad. Kuester has to be better. But, that doesn't mean he'll be good. He can have almost as many issues, obstacles, and problems as Curry did last year. But, we hope he'll be significantly better.

I don't think it's clear whether the team is better than last year. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pistons end up with a similar record as last year. Maybe slightly better. But, in a couple years when Rasheed and Dice are retired, Herrmann playing his third straight year in Europe, and Amir still trying to learn how not to foul, Pistons fans will be able to accept the major changes we made this summer better.

We have a better outlook, not necessarily a better team yet. If we're not going to end up with the same record as last year, we'll have a better one. That's the way I'm looking at it. The group just needs experience together.

I think everything Jelly said is right on. I'm not sure if this year's group is more talented, but the chemistry should be 1,000x better without AI. Also, with Big Ben back, that should do wonders for Tay & Rip.

As far as the coaching goes, I don't know anything about Kuester at all, but I do know that Curry was in WAY over his head, and he instilled zero confidence in me as a fan.

A change had to happen sooner or later. I expect us to be right around .500 this season, but we may be pleasantly surprised. I hope it'll be fun to watch, anyway, unlike last season when you saw a team that was grossly underachieving and played with no heart at all (except McDyess, of course).

quote:

Originally posted by EricLeckner:
The off season moves make us younger but if you do not factor age into your opinions are we a better team?

Curry vs Kuester
Dice, Sheed vs Wilcox and Charlie V
AI vs Gordon
Herman/ Johnson vs A bunch of Rookies

we will c

I think this year's team will be better than the team that finished last season and worse than the team that started last season...

THis year's team i think is going to be a lot better then last years team. I really do think that bg and cv and the three rookie amigos are going to blend in well with the rest of the boys. It might start off a little slow maybe for the first month, but after that i am sure we are gonna jet.

I do not know what it is but i really do think that charlie v is going to be special with this team, i really cant put my finger on it but he is gonna blow up. I hope i am not wrong.

Finally, there is going to be one big trade before the end of this up coming season, a type of trade that puts in contention with the big 3 in the east. I personally think we one one player away from being an amazing team, i do think that player is a center.

quote:

Originally posted by Jelly:
I don't think it's clear cut either way because you have to figure different things into the equation. It's not just merely pitting those match-ups. It's about how the chemistry gels and how much and how fast the younger players improve as the season goes along. It's about more than just one front court versus the other.

Rasheed and McDyess are better than Villanueva and Wilcox, and I think convincingly so, especially for next season. Now, in a couple of years, age should completely catch up to both of those guys. You have to realize that it's not just who will be better next season, but also looking at a few years down the line.

Allen Iverson has more talent than Ben Gordon, even now. But, Iverson just didn't work with the team and was a horrible match, had a horrible attitude, and was just bad overall for the Pistons. Ben Gordon should be better by default as it pertains to chemistry and overall production, but talent wise, I'd still say Iverson is a better player.

I give it pretty much a wash between Herrmann/Amir and the rookies. Thing is, i don't think the rookies are going to get significant playing time. I know some people hope and expect it, but I don't see much more than 15 mpg combined for both Daye and Summers, unless they completely wow or a trade is made midseason. Thereby, rendering the comparison pretty moot. Herrmann and Amir were basically non-factors because Herrmann didn't really get to play and Amir fell out of favor relatively quickly. I think playing time and opportunity will also be short for the rookies so I think determining which set is better is rather meaningless.

The one apparent advantage would be coaching, and only because Curry was that bad. Kuester has to be better. But, that doesn't mean he'll be good. He can have almost as many issues, obstacles, and problems as Curry did last year. But, we hope he'll be significantly better.

I don't think it's clear whether the team is better than last year. I wouldn't be surprised if the Pistons end up with a similar record as last year. Maybe slightly better. But, in a couple years when Rasheed and Dice are retired, Herrmann playing his third straight year in Europe, and Amir still trying to learn how not to foul, Pistons fans will be able to accept the major changes we made this summer better.

Very good point. And if Stuckey evolves into a top level PG and Billups never gets Denver to the promised land, that will help a lot of people accept the transition.

If Rasheed is better than C.V. tell me how many 40 point games he has had in his career?? Now I admit Rasheed has been one of my favorite players on Detroit but realistically he hasn't been that great since his younger years in Portland. Once his athleticism went so didn't his greatness. I think it left after the 04 season. I believe Cv has the potential to be great. And btw whoever said Ben Gordon is better than Chauncey is full of it.

Tony Delk has two 50 point games in his career.

Apparently, that makes Tony Delk > Chris Paul and Deron Williams.

Better yet, Tony Delk > Isiah Thomas as Isiah never had any 50 point games.

quote:

Originally posted by Jelly:
Tony Delk has two 50 point games in his career.

Apparently, that makes Tony Delk > Chris Paul and Deron Williams.

Better yet, Tony Delk > Isiah Thomas as Isiah never had any 50 point games.

Yeah, and that Burton guy for the 76ers had a 55 point game in 1995 or 1996, and he was out of the league 2 yrs later.

Agreed, CV is a better pure scorer than Rasheed, but he is not even close to being as good of a defender. Also, CV can't score on the blocks like Rasheed, but since Sheed never posted up anyway, I guess that doesn't matter.