I'm not one of the people saying he should be, so don't bite my head off. However, I can actually see why some people think he has been on the job too long. What has he done since 2004? Yeah, I appreciate him bringing us Chauncey, Rip, and Ben... but one good run doesn't equal a lifetime stay as GM. He's been horrible with coaches, he drafted Darko (you can say he was a consesus top three pick all you want, BUT HOW THE HELL DO YOU TAKE HIM OVER MELO?!?!), he's never really been that great @ drafting all together (Tayshaun was a steal), but outside of that, players like J-Max and Rodney Stuckey are, in fact, OVERRATED. He trades the captain of our team (who really shouldn't have been the one to be traded), and in return he gets a scumbag player who not only quit on us, but we use his and Shee's money to sign two mediocre players who will not be of significant help.

So, basically, we give up C-Bill and Sheed for Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueava. How awesome, right?

HOWEVER, I'm not entirely convinced that these players are here to stay... perhaps he'll be using em' for a sign and trade, though that is unlikely. But hey, I'm not going to scream for his head just yeat. But one thing is for sure... if Joe D doesn't strike gold with this... he may not be the GM for very long. And much like our core team we had for several years, he'll be considered one of the most overrated GMs of all time.

Better question? Should you be banned?

Gordon is 26 and the offensive talent we need.

Villanueva is 24 and has the same offensive game as Wallace.

Look it how young our team is! Why we're we so good in 04? Youth!

We just had our first season in SIX YEARS not making the ECFs and you want him fired?

No.

You're a bum. In Joe D I trust.

You could argue that during Joe Dumars' tenure as President of Basketball Operations, only RC Buford and arguably Jerry West have been the only NBA GMs who have done or did a better job. That's arguable either way. But, even if you think there are a couple others, Dumars is still a top 5 GM in the NBA. He is not without fault and he's made some very poor decisions in his career as GM. But, his ability to build and then maintain a highly successful team outweighs his mistakes. His leash is not infinite. But, he should not be fired right now. No way.

Our team peaked for 6-7 years!
All good things come to an end, and if these signings usher in a new era of competitive basketball, what more can you ask for?
Assembling a championship team takes a perfect storm; a number of variables coming together at the same time, luck/health included. And even then, nothing is guaranteed!
Dude, don't be spoiled, and don't minimize what Joe D has done for this team.
He hasn't made the right decision EVERY SINGLE TIME, but how many GM's haven't regretted decisions with hindsight?

quote:

Originally posted by TPA:
Our team peaked for 6-7 years!
All good things come to an end, and if these signings usher in a new era of competitive basketball, what more can you ask for?
Assembling a championship team takes a perfect storm; a number of variables coming together at the same time, luck/health included. And even then, nothing is guaranteed!
Dude, don't be spoiled, and don't minimize what Joe D has done for this team.
He hasn't made the right decision EVERY SINGLE TIME, but how many GM's haven't regretted decisions with hindsight?

100% correct. GM's play a chess match every year. Joe has done very well with the pieces he had. We should of won another championship but I'm glad we did as well as we did.

LOL @ Piston fans.

Especially the ones who think we were gonna keep Billups Tay and Rip and Sheed for ever and ever.

You guys act like babies. Piston fans are supposed to be tough and hardnose, lets represent that, and not be whining babies.

5 ECF and you guys are mad because everything is perfect.

I recall similar reactions when Ben and Atkins were our big FA signings. And trading Stack for Rip.

A bunch of no name guys who werent Superstars, and a chauncey Billups who was becoming a journeyman.

Lets not pretend we were all calling Joe a genius when he made those moves.

I like how even when you make it clear you're not jumping at the bit to see him fired, people still assume that's exactly what you meant. Did any of you actually read what I typed? And of course I realized that core would come to an end, but that still doesn't justify the mistakes he made with Flip and Curry, or the ridiculous Iverson trade for that matter. If these signings DON'T work out, which could be likely... will all of you still be singing the same tune? Nope.

Yeah, ban me and call me a bum for having an opinion that differentiate's from all of your's.

quote:

Originally posted by Melvin Nasty:
I like how even when you make it clear you're not jumping at the bit to see him fired, people still assume that's exactly what you meant. Did any of you actually read what I typed? And of course I realized that core would come to an end, but that still doesn't justify the mistakes he made with Flip and Curry, or the ridiculous Iverson trade for that matter. If these signings DON'T work out, which could be likely... will all of you still be singing the same tune? Nope.

Yeah, ban me and call me a bum for having an opinion that differentiate's from all of your's.

Bum.

quote:

Originally posted by Melvin Nasty:
I like how even when you make it clear you're not jumping at the bit to see him fired, people still assume that's exactly what you meant. Did any of you actually read what I typed? And of course I realized that core would come to an end, but that still doesn't justify the mistakes he made with Flip and Curry, or the ridiculous Iverson trade for that matter. If these signings DON'T work out, which could be likely... will all of you still be singing the same tune? Nope.

Yeah, ban me and call me a bum for having an opinion that differentiate's from all of your's.

The ridiculous Iverson trade just rebuilt this franchise. 1 down year is a sacrifice a GM must be willing to make.
You basically raised the question "Should Joe be Fired".
Forgive US all for unanimously smacking you in the face for suggesting so.
Any move of players in the past 3 years would have people like you questioning Joe's craft. The time does eventually come to make moves, and they will not always be in Utopian favor.

quote:

Originally posted by Melvin Nasty:
I like how even when you make it clear you're not jumping at the bit to see him fired, people still assume that's exactly what you meant. Did any of you actually read what I typed? And of course I realized that core would come to an end, but that still doesn't justify the mistakes he made with Flip and Curry, or the ridiculous Iverson trade for that matter. If these signings DON'T work out, which could be likely... will all of you still be singing the same tune? Nope.

Yeah, ban me and call me a bum for having an opinion that differentiate's from all of your's.

The fact that you, and others, are even thinking about it is laughable. And can we please stop the "He doesn't draft well" myth. If you actually look into it, he's been in the top 10 at drafting players. That's not great, but it is top 1/3. There are a lot of misses in the draft.

Lets see. He got an All-Star in the 2nd round with Okur. An Olympian and key piece to the championship in the late first round with Tay. Amir is way better than the avg. last pick in the draft. NBA experts think Stuckey is going to at least make an All-Star game at some point and nobody drafted after him has played better. Maxiel and Afflalo have been as good as the avg. player picked in the late first round (many late 1st round picks are not even in the league anymore). Maxiel even got more votes for 6th man of the year than any other big before Curry began using his minutes like a yo-yo. Even Delfino was a typical late first round pick, averaging about 10 ppg before bolting to Europe.

Joe D. has not had what could be called a "bad" pick in years.

quote:

Originally posted by TPA:

quote:

Originally posted by Melvin Nasty:
I like how even when you make it clear you're not jumping at the bit to see him fired, people still assume that's exactly what you meant. Did any of you actually read what I typed? And of course I realized that core would come to an end, but that still doesn't justify the mistakes he made with Flip and Curry, or the ridiculous Iverson trade for that matter. If these signings DON'T work out, which could be likely... will all of you still be singing the same tune? Nope.

Yeah, ban me and call me a bum for having an opinion that differentiate's from all of your's.

The rediculous Iverson trade just rebuilt this franchise. 1 down year is a sacrifice a GM must be willing to make.
You basically raised the question "Should Joe be Fired".
Forgive US all for unanimously smacking you in the face for suggesting so.

Yeah, this team is rebuilt alright.

Gordon and Villanueava aren't going to carry us anywhere.

Congrats on being naive.

quote:

Originally posted by Melvin Nasty:

Yeah, ban me and call me a bum for having an opinion that differentiate's from all of your's.

If your name is really Melvin then no need to ban you as your life sucks anyways.

quote:

Originally posted by Melvin Nasty:

quote:

Originally posted by TPA:

quote:

Originally posted by Melvin Nasty:
I like how even when you make it clear you're not jumping at the bit to see him fired, people still assume that's exactly what you meant. Did any of you actually read what I typed? And of course I realized that core would come to an end, but that still doesn't justify the mistakes he made with Flip and Curry, or the ridiculous Iverson trade for that matter. If these signings DON'T work out, which could be likely... will all of you still be singing the same tune? Nope.

Yeah, ban me and call me a bum for having an opinion that differentiate's from all of your's.

The rediculous Iverson trade just rebuilt this franchise. 1 down year is a sacrifice a GM must be willing to make.
You basically raised the question "Should Joe be Fired".
Forgive US all for unanimously smacking you in the face for suggesting so.

Yeah, this team is rebuilt alright.

Gordon and Villanueava aren't going to carry us anywhere.

Congrats on being naive.

Congrats on being an arm-chair GM.
Do you think Joe is done making moves for next season?

quote:

Originally posted by Afflalo2theMax:

quote:

Originally posted by Melvin Nasty:
I like how even when you make it clear you're not jumping at the bit to see him fired, people still assume that's exactly what you meant. Did any of you actually read what I typed? And of course I realized that core would come to an end, but that still doesn't justify the mistakes he made with Flip and Curry, or the ridiculous Iverson trade for that matter. If these signings DON'T work out, which could be likely... will all of you still be singing the same tune? Nope.

Yeah, ban me and call me a bum for having an opinion that differentiate's from all of your's.

The fact that you, and others, are even thinking about it is laughable. And can we please stop the "He doesn't draft well" myth. If you actually look into it, he's been in the top 10 at drafting players. That's not great, but it is top 1/3. There are a lot of misses in the draft.

Lets see. He got an All-Star in the 2nd round with Okur. An Olympian and key piece to the championship in the late first round with Tay. Amir is way better than the avg. last pick in the draft. NBA experts think Stuckey is going to at least make an All-Star game at some point. Maxiel and Afflalo have been as good as the avg. player picked in the late first round (many late 1st round picks are not even in the league anymore). Maxiel even got more votes for 6th man of the year than any other big before Curry began using his minutes like a yo-yo. Even Delfino was a typical late first round pick, averaging about 10 ppg before bolting to Europe.

Joe D. has not had what could be called a "bad" pick in years.

Who does Okur play for now? That's right the Jazz.

Stuckey an all-star? Give me a break. If last year is any indication of what's to come, then he'll be nothing more than a bench player.

Max is overrated as well.

If you guys are going to act like this, at least try to NOT use fallacious arguments.

quote:

Originally posted by TPA:

quote:

Originally posted by Melvin Nasty:

quote:

Originally posted by TPA:

quote:

Originally posted by Melvin Nasty:
I like how even when you make it clear you're not jumping at the bit to see him fired, people still assume that's exactly what you meant. Did any of you actually read what I typed? And of course I realized that core would come to an end, but that still doesn't justify the mistakes he made with Flip and Curry, or the ridiculous Iverson trade for that matter. If these signings DON'T work out, which could be likely... will all of you still be singing the same tune? Nope.

Yeah, ban me and call me a bum for having an opinion that differentiate's from all of your's.

The rediculous Iverson trade just rebuilt this franchise. 1 down year is a sacrifice a GM must be willing to make.
You basically raised the question "Should Joe be Fired".
Forgive US all for unanimously smacking you in the face for suggesting so.

Yeah, this team is rebuilt alright.

Gordon and Villanueava aren't going to carry us anywhere.

Congrats on being naive.

Congrats on being a better GM with an unforeseen plan.

I never said I'd make a great GM. But I guess I should expect the typical responses on here.

Seriously, do you all really believe Gordon and Villanueava will turn this team around? I'll gladly eat crow if they do, but odds are that is not going to happen.

And how many times do I have to reiterate that I'm not stating Joe should be fired? I'm simply implying that I can see within reason why some people are starting to down that route.

LEARN. TO. READ.

quote:

Originally posted by Melvin Nasty:

quote:

Originally posted by TPA:

quote:

Originally posted by Melvin Nasty:
I like how even when you make it clear you're not jumping at the bit to see him fired, people still assume that's exactly what you meant. Did any of you actually read what I typed? And of course I realized that core would come to an end, but that still doesn't justify the mistakes he made with Flip and Curry, or the ridiculous Iverson trade for that matter. If these signings DON'T work out, which could be likely... will all of you still be singing the same tune? Nope.

Yeah, ban me and call me a bum for having an opinion that differentiate's from all of your's.

The rediculous Iverson trade just rebuilt this franchise. 1 down year is a sacrifice a GM must be willing to make.
You basically raised the question "Should Joe be Fired".
Forgive US all for unanimously smacking you in the face for suggesting so.

Yeah, this team is rebuilt alright.

Gordon and Villanueava aren't going to carry us anywhere.

Congrats on being naive.

Naw I just think the guy meant it took its first step in rebuilding the franchise. Get a quality big and a backup PF and we could be something special. Add in Avery and I'll be happy going into next year. It's only been one day of free agency and look how much Joe has accomplished already. Be patient man...

quote:

Originally posted by Melvin Nasty:

quote:

Originally posted by Afflalo2theMax:

quote:

Originally posted by Melvin Nasty:
I like how even when you make it clear you're not jumping at the bit to see him fired, people still assume that's exactly what you meant. Did any of you actually read what I typed? And of course I realized that core would come to an end, but that still doesn't justify the mistakes he made with Flip and Curry, or the ridiculous Iverson trade for that matter. If these signings DON'T work out, which could be likely... will all of you still be singing the same tune? Nope.

Yeah, ban me and call me a bum for having an opinion that differentiate's from all of your's.

The fact that you, and others, are even thinking about it is laughable. And can we please stop the "He doesn't draft well" myth. If you actually look into it, he's been in the top 10 at drafting players. That's not great, but it is top 1/3. There are a lot of misses in the draft.

Lets see. He got an All-Star in the 2nd round with Okur. An Olympian and key piece to the championship in the late first round with Tay. Amir is way better than the avg. last pick in the draft. NBA experts think Stuckey is going to at least make an All-Star game at some point. Maxiel and Afflalo have been as good as the avg. player picked in the late first round (many late 1st round picks are not even in the league anymore). Maxiel even got more votes for 6th man of the year than any other big before Curry began using his minutes like a yo-yo. Even Delfino was a typical late first round pick, averaging about 10 ppg before bolting to Europe.

Joe D. has not had what could be called a "bad" pick in years.

Who does Okur play for now? That's right the Jazz.

Stuckey an all-star? Give me a break. If last year is any indication of what's to come, then he'll be nothing more than a bench player.

Max is overrated as well.

If you guys are going to act like this, at least try to NOT use fallacious arguments.

It's not Joe D's fault his 2nd round pick was so good the Jazz offered him a boat load of money.

And you can have your opinion on Stuckey and Maxiel, but I agree with most of the experts and insiders.