This guys defense is harrible and he's nowhere near a good replacement for Sheed. I knew I was right about Sheed being important for our success we had in recent years but having the cancer patient on our team shows how effective sheeds ability was. Like I said a while back, no one can replace sheed except maybe Duncan or KG but thats it. I don't care if its early in the season, he's just not that big and not that versatile as sheed was.

Explain why he is a good replacement for sheeeed

i didn't expect him to be a sheed replacement, but i didn't expect him to be this bad. some of the stuff he does out there has nothing to do with being on a new team or not. he just lacks a solid bball iq; things he should've learned 10 years ago.


i wont throw in the towel on him yet, but we need to find a role for him, and quick. you'd think he could be a potential all star, but so far, he just looks like a garbage man with bad defense and who likes chucking up threes. pistons might have to scale back their expectations for a minute and give him something he can handle

His basketball IQ is not great by any means, but a lot of the issues he's been having I wouldn't attribute to low basketball IQ. Again Memphis, he was having problems containing either Zach Randolph or Marc Gasol because he doesn't have enough strength against them, which led to him getting into foul trouble.

Against Oklahoma City, it was again more defensively that he needs work at. But, a lot of it was footwork and positioning, which is more about coaching, not about his actual IQ and awareness.

Offensively, he hasn't been great, but I don't think he's been all that bad either. He's not getting a lot of touches and he hasn't found a rhythm in either game yet. I'll give him more time offensively, because that's where he is supposed to be an asset.

But if you were expecting anything great defensively, you were probably naive to think he could make much of an impact at that end.

I obviously would like for him to play much better, but my expectations for him weren't all that high to begin with.

Pleaese, Please, just get real and open your eyes!

Since May, he has played in only 4 games and 2 weeks of practice, opposed to the month of practive and 10 games others have got.

Hes still shedding off the offseason rust like every vet does in the preseason, but he wasnt available in the preseason. His legs arent back yet, his jumpers will start to fall.

Making conclusions on him after he has logged less than 100 minutes with the Pistons (including preseason) is the stupidest thing anybody could do.

In the end, hes gonna get about 17 a game, and you guys will look even worse than you already do. This guy averaged 16 and 7 in 26mpg last year

i dont care about his numbers. i'm more concerned with how he gets them. that's what's gonna determine whether he lives up to his potential or not. so far, he isnt even close.

He's not going to average 17 ppg this season, not with two guys in Rip and Ben who will both average 18-20 ppg. He just won't. It's naive to look at his numbers last year and assume that when two of the three leading scorers on the Bucks were out injured most of last year. Unless two of Rip, Ben, and Stuckey are injured most of the season, Charlie is not going to average much more than 14-15 ppg at best this season, even if he logs closer to 30-32 mpg. He's just not that guy.

And stop talking about him missing preseason games and shaking off the rust. That's not why he hasn't played great. He hasn't played that great because he's not as good as some people thought he was. He's a complementary player best suited as the third or fourth option on offense and is a player that isn't going to play great defense. That's who he is. That's what he is.

How many times has an older player started off slow? When veterans are clanking jumpers early in the year they dont have their legs back.

I honestly thought you were smarter than what you appear to be. This is like judging Austin Daye on how he played in a single game, the first week of his career. Its crazy.

Villanueava is already a proven shooter, and a very good one. Hes pretty effective at getting into the paint.

This guy is a proven nba scorer and rebounder.

If Rip Hamilton had a horrible preseason game in 2002, would you guys write him off as a role player who wasnt that great?

I cant believe that people think that veteran players are at their best the first week of the season, yet alone players who missed a month worth of basketball.

So you guys are telling me that he is not going to do any better than 8ppg, 3rpg, and 31% this season. YOU GUYS ARE TELLING ME THIS IS HIS BEST BASKETBALL, THAT HES MAXED OUT? You guys are fools. Fans who make knee jerk reactions like this are fans who look incredibly dumb and ignorant.

while you're over there drooling to the stats on your charlie villanueva basketball card, JJ and I are referring to his playstyle.


he simply has not shown the tools needed to cut through the other scorers on this team. not even in that milwaukee paradise you keep yapping about. i hope he gets some, but he does not have them yet.

He cant shoot? Thats what you're saying.

So forget the fact hes a career 45% shooter, he hasnt shown the ability to shoot well the past 2 games, which erases the past 4 seasons.

I'm the one not watching basketball?

Charlie having a slow start to the season has nothing to do with my assessment of him. I never thought he was a 20/10 type of guy even before the Pistons acquired him. It's naive to look at his stats last year when his first three seasons, he's proved to be a 12 ppg in about 28 mpg. He's never averaged 30 mpg in his previous four seasons, and it's not because he was injured or because he was out of shape. He's just not a 32-36 mpg type of player. That's not who he is.

Even last year, when they started Luc Mbah a Moute at power forward for more than half the season and the only other real power forward they had was Malik Allen, Charlie still didn't average 30 mpg. What does that tell you? If he couldn't log 30+ minutes last year on that team, he's not going to play 32-36 minutes on this Pistons team, nor should he, UNLESS he improves dramatically defensively.

You want to only look at last year and then translate his numbers to 36 minutes a game. Problem is he isn't a 36 minutes a game player. Plus, you ignore his first three seasons in the league.

He's not a 20/10 player, and I don't base that on the first two games of the season. That's simply not who he is. I'm not the one making "crazy" leaps of assumptions about what he's capable of doing when his career has shown otherwise.

If he improves, more power to him. Based on his entire career up to this point, he's not 20/10 guy. He's not even a 17 ppg guy. And, he's not a 36 minutes per game guy. If he were any of those things, he wouldn't have settled for $7 million a year because his market value would have been much, much higher.

I never said that he was a 20-10 guy...

Something you arent realizing is that if somebody is 20-10 per 36, that means that while they are on the court they are effecient. It means he scores the ball and rebounds the ball at a high rate.

Regardless of his minutes, his per 36 shows that he is a productive scorer and rebounder, you cant argue that.

I aint watched the first few games,but if hes that bad were in trouble.

Do you think Zach Randolph is an efficient player with his career 20/10 per 36 mins stats?

Regardless, you continue to ignore the fact that he put up those stats last year when two of the top three scorers on his team were missing most of the season and his team asked him to score more with basically him and Jefferson as the only capable scorers. There are players that put up very good stats on bad teams, but it doesn't make them great players. Corey Maggette is a great example of that, when he was putting up season after season of 20 ppg and 5-6 rpg on lottery teams.

The true test of a player is how he can produce on a good team with other quality players. Before last season, Charlie averaged roughly 12 ppg and 6 rpg in roughly 26 mpg. That represents what he basically is. That's the type of player we should expect. His stats show he can play in the league and that he's an ok scorer and rebounder. I wouldn't call him a great scorer or rebounder. I wouldn't even call him necessarily a "productive" scorer and rebounder. He's a capable scorer and rebounder, a decent scorer and rebounder. For his skill set, size, and length, last season shouldn't be the first time he put up 20+ pp36m. His rebounding is adequate for his size and position.

Now, is it possible that he can really improve his game to the point of being much better than that? Sure, it's possible. But don't expect it. Don't expect him to all of a sudden be a borderline all star or one of the top 15 PFs in the league. He's not. He's a middle-of-the-pack power forward who has a nice skill set for the position. He still lacks strength and defensive abilities.

Again, with Ben and Rip, if they're relatively healthy all season, I can't see Charlie averaging near 17 ppg. Offensively, he probably will be closer to what Rasheed brough in terms of scoring contributions. Sheed average about 13 ppg in his time as a Piston. That's where Charlie should be around, hopefully closer to 14-15 ppg.

2 games and this is what we get? Man it's going to be a longgggg season.

I don't even wanna here it from any of you. There was maybe a couple people last year that supported rasheed. Don't go missing him and loving him now cause he aint here no more.

JMO - but from what I am seeing out there, CV is just plain 'soft'.

i looked at his stats last year and thought he could produce that this year. JJ your argument is good but you do not take into account that he still shot 45% avg 17 and 7 while being on a bad team with people injured. We brought him to our bad team to do the same. Not to be a middle of the pack player.

Right now Rip is out and he isn't doing anything. I don't know if it's Sucky or him not being aggressive at this point. The point is he was brought here to be the best front court player on the team and he isn't doing it.

Well It did not help when he got hot last night Coach Q took him out in favor of Suckey Bynum and BG

no eyebrow charlies problem isn't that he cant score cause he can even if on a weakned bucks team last year he still had to go out and put the ball in the basket his problem if i remember right he still put up 20 + games on some good defenses .. it's is his marshmellow soft defense that his problem .. yeah he has the ablity to score 17 - a game but his opponet will go off for 25 .. it takes a mindset to play defense and hustle and heart .. on the defensive end i think he's just pure lazy

I agree Beast. Even with Rip out, Charlie isn't getting that many touches because BG, Stuckey, and Bynum still dominate the ball and monopolize shot attempts. I'm not that concerned about his offense. I'd be fine if he's somewhere between 12-15 ppg, and he should be able to do that once he gets more comfortable. It's his defense that's more of an issue.